Hi Geraldine
Your marriage info for James C and John C in 1829 has provided a breakthrough.
I'd definitely ignore the Family Group research on Familysearch which asserts that Alice Coulthard nee Fargher died in 1846 ---- it's probably no more than a guess.
So keeping an open mind and pulling together various strands of information:
1) The James Coulthard and the John Coulthard who both married in Cockermouth in 1829 and had witnesses with the same names --- there's a strong chance that they were brothers (or half brothers), and since we know that James had a Manx mother called Alice and a father called William Coulthard, this might also apply to John.
2) Looking for a John Coulthard with a wife called Margaret nee Young in the censuses
In his email, Eric had been looking for the Manx-born children of Wm C and Alice, and in particular, at a John Coulthard/Margaret family in Cockermouth who were living on St Helen's Street. In 1861, John said he was born in the IOM. The same family in 1851 disappointingly had blanks for "place of birth" for all the family members. And even more disappointing was the entry for George (Coulthard implied by ditto marks) as 81 yr old "widower father" so on the face of it, this didn't look like being the right family.
Finding this John/Margaret family in 1841 in Ancestry was very tricky, but eventually they turned up transcribed as Coutthard. And lo and behold, the last member of the household list was George Young. This would fit well with the 81yr old George "father" in the slapdash 1851 entry.
The inconsistent thing is that, if James and John were brothers with father William Coulthard and manx mother Alice, John's place of birth would have been IOM, not Cockermouth ---- unless James had actually been born while his mother was in Cockermouth and then taken back to the IOM for baptism. Assuming that this scenario is possible, then you've got:
a) A James Coulthard (married to Mgt Guy) with a manx mother, Alice b 1770 (from 1851 census) and a father, William Coulthard, joiner (from Alice's death cert) --- who almost certainly had a brother John (married to Mgt Young) (from witnesses at their marriages clue)
b) A couple called William Coulthard and Alice Fargher who had several children whose baptisms are listed as extracted entries in the IGI, including:
2. JAMES COULTHARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 03 MAR 1804 Santon, Isle Of Man, England
3. JOHN COULTHARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 05 APR 1807 Santon, Isle Of Man, England
*************************************************
Below are the census entries for John C and Mgt Young.
************************************************
1841 Ancestry's transcription
Cumberland, Brigham 2/5
St Helen's St, Cockermouth
1841 England Census
about John Cautthard
Name: John Cautthard
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1807
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Brigham
Hundred: Allerdale above Derwent
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cockermouth
Sub-registration district: Cockermouth
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Cautthard 34
Margaret Cautthard 40
William Cautthard 11
George Cautthard 10
James Cautthard 7
John Cautthard 5
Thomas Cautthard 2
George Young 70
John 34 ag lab N
Mgt 40 N
all the others Y
*****************************************************
1851 Ancestry's transcription:
St Helen's Street
NB in "where born" column it's blank for all members of the household.
John is an innkeeper.
George 81 is widr pauper
1851 England Census
about John Coulthard
Name: John Coulthard
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1807
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Margaret Coulthard
Father's name: George Coulthard
Gender: M (Male)
Civil Parish: Cockermouth
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View image
Registration district: Cockermouth
Sub-registration district: Keswick
ED, institution, or vessel: 9b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 54
Household Members: Name Age
John Coulthard 44
Margaret Coulthard 48
George Coulthard 81
George Coulthard 19
Thomas Coulthard 17
Margaret Coulthard 9
Jane Coulthard 7
Thomas Scott 38
John Ellor 45
Emanuel Ellor 33
John Rigley 38
Margaret Scott 31
"George Ditto" age 81 "father, widower, pauper " is probably George Young, Margaret's father. There's a George Young 70 in their 1841 household.
**************************************************
1861 Ancestry's transcription
same family as 1851 above
St Helen's St
1861 England Census
about John Coulthard
Name: John Coulthard
Age: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1807
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Margaret Coulthard
Gender: Male
Where born: Isle of Man, Isle of Man
Civil Parish: Cockermouth
Ecclesiastical parish: Carlisle
Town: Cockermouth
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View image
Registration district: Cockermouth
Sub-registration district: Cockermouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 65
Household Members: Name Age
John Coulthard 54
Margaret Coulthard 59
George Coulthard 30
John Coulthard 24
Margaret Coulthard 20
Thomas Bell Mark 23
Jane Mark 18
John Blaylock 20
Edward Furness 28
*******************************************************
Eric's transcription of same 1861 household:
1861 census at St. Helen’s St “Pheasant Inn”, Cockermouth, Cumb RG9 3935 19 pg 12 #65
John COULTHARD, Head Mar 54 Farmer of 10 acres employing 1 man, b Isle of Man
Margaret COULTHARD, Wife Mar 59, b Lancashire Burnley
George COULTHARD, Son Un 30, Ag Lab, b Cumberland Cockermouth
John COULTHARD, Son Un 24 Currier, b Cumberland Cockermouth
Margaret COULTHARD, Daugh Un 20, General Servant, b Cumberland Cockermouth
Thomas Bell MARK, Son in Law, Mar 23 Brewer Rope & Twine Maker, b Cumberland Wigton
Jane MARK, Wife Mar 18, b Cumberland Cockermouth
John BLAYCOCK, Lodger Un 20, Skinner Ap, b Cumberland Maryport
Edward FURNESS, Visitor Widr 28 Currier, b Cumberland Wigton
*********************************************
It's looking promising and it gives you more leads to follow.
Jean C