Many thanks for this speedy reply over here in New Zealand. Please bear with me while I digest this. In the light of the information from the two every fast replys, and with me being a new comer to this Gen. scene, am I to take this as confirmation that John was indeed illegitimate, and that he was raised by his "fornicating" mother and her husband on the Island. If this is so and John later chose to take the name of Dumbell, we must suppose that of his genetic father, and knowing that Dumbell was not a Manx name and therefore probably not all that great in number on the Island how do I find his fornicating father. I have laid out a time line about 2 yrs ago to see how he might fit into the Dumbell bank family and he slides neatly amongst those children as far as age is concerned. That says he could be G.W,s child or perhaps maybe one of the older boys, long shot, but now what to do.I know we must not "count Chickens" but I must start somewhere until a better idea comes allong.Ideas of assistance greatly recieved.