Thanks JC
no I havent found him as yet, so I'll have a look at this, I know he was back on IOM 1901when he died
- but on the good side I have found his mother Elizabeth (ne Hudson) b 1811, father John b 1817 & brother a John Henry who was a butcher he married a Sarah ?
Ive found them on 1851 at 4 Quilliam court 1861 - still checking, 1871 at 4 Guttery Gable 1881 thomas at Shaws brow with family, his brother John at 7 Gr Nelson St,still looking at 1891,

need to find when his father John snr died and what Sarah maiden name was

Chris