Thanks Eric. Just wanted confirmed about John's father and I think that does it. Now I can continue with that informatiom I promised your regarding Francis Gelling and Margaret Isabella Kermode (John & Margaret's daughter).

I didn't really have any specific information re: connecting the William b. 1787 with Isabella Kewley, other than an earlier thread re: Kneale family of Lonan (Elizabeth 16/6/2004) wherein she has indicated John Kermode was the son of William Kermode and Isabella Cowley; since I did not have such a Cowley I wondered if it was Kewley instead and just wanted to ensure I had the right connection. I have the marriage registry for William and Jane Fargrher 19 Mar 1817, but since there were no parents listed, I wasn't sure of the connection to Dan and Margaret (Quark) Kermode. Thanks for providing this linkage. In any event I think we agree that John's father was Daniel not William.

As you also indicate William was not the only surviving child of Daniel and Margaret Killip; in Daniel's 1873 Will he leaves one shilling to each of his children but they are not named; everything else went to his 2nd wife Eleanor, but William put in a small claim. Other survivors included, John (as you indicate) and Ann, who married Joseph Raisbeck and travelled to Australia around 1850. Although Daniel and his 2nd wife Eleanor had several children (one being Joseph my great grandfather); and both William and John were still alive at the time of her death in 1892, she left everything to Sarah (Kermode) Cowin, their daughter. I have it that Joseph Raisbeck was the brother of Robert Raisbeck, who married Jane Gelling, and Jane Raisbeck who married John Gelling, both emigrated to the U.S. I believe Catherine Raisbeck b. about 1822 was also an older sister, who married a Horsley and they also went to the US.

Thanks for the offer of more on Margaret Kneale. In the above noted thread, Elizabeth provides considerable info regarding the Kneale family, augmented by info provided by Lois. I'm still considering that info and may get back to you later.

Finally, I have indeed come across William Kermode, the shoemaker often, but have not yet connected him. If I find anything definitive will let you know
Thanks for you clarifications.
wayne