suspect both are same - aren't they both patron submitted tho, one reflecting new style date - catch is I looked for this in Patrick some time ago and marked my record ?? indicating I couldn't find it - it could have been there but entered some years later but strange that the presentments confirm a child + birth and link to Patrick Cain - the Else/Alice I was always even more doubtful as it required the child to be very young to take on voyage to match the assumed baptism date in the Island and the first sighting of Patrick in America