Yes I think that my initial thoughts that John died in 1788 were wrong, in fact his death was 1815. Elinor died in 1791, I suspect related to the birth of Ralph who was born in 1791. I was trying to find a 2nd marriage for John to a female xxx Creech but can't find anything and as you now say Creech is an error I'm now adding the 6 chn to Elinor and John Caveen's brood. That does mean my family line IS Caveen - I'm pleased about that. My Dad, God rest his soul, was very proud of having the Caveen name in his ancestry. Thanks for your help in sorting out my problems. Much appreciated.