Philip said -
Averil, I end up with two questions for you:

1. Is your theory purely driven by the 1783 decedent, or is there some other
argument that I have missed?

Philip said –
In yours of 27/7/2011, 6:08 a.m. you say three times that John, husband of Isabel Camaish who died in 1835, was baptised on 14th Jan 1770. You comment that he can’t be the son of JL and MK. If he was baptised in 1770 that would be right, but was he? CKR says he was born in 1748. Why is that wrong?

Averil replied -
because the year 1748 was the year that Thomas Looney was born.

name: Thomas Looney
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 14 Aug 1748
baptism/christening place: Maughold
father: John Looney

Philip said –
or 1745 according to your Timeline Part 2);

Averil replied -
1745 – John & Daniel mentioned together in their father’s Will indicating Twins.

Philip said –
There are three John Looneys: the sons of Robert L and Jane Kneen (b 1750);

Averil replied – John - one
This John Looney, son of Robert Looney & Jane Kneen Died in - 1783 aged 34.

Philip said –
and John Looney son of Daniel Looney and Isabel Cashen (b 1770).

Averil replied – John - two
John Looney Crowcreen died 28th July 1769
John Looney son of, Daniel Looney & Isabel Cashen
Was not born until the 14th January 1770

John Looney Junior – signed his Father ˈs Will - in 1769

Philip said –
One of the three could be the unfortunate that died in 1783 aged 34. That one (let’s call him the 1783 decedent) could not be the husband of either lady because they both had children well after 1783. That age of 34 is a really useful piece of information. If we had the other ages at death, there wouldn’t be this problem. That age implies a birth in 1748/9, which sort-of fits the son of Robert and Jane (1750), your candidate, and also the son of John and Margaret.

Averil replied – John – Three
John Looney 27th December 1777 son of, John Looney & Margaret Hutchen
John - son of John Looney & Margaret Hutchen is still alive in 1802

From, Manx Museum
Castletown Deeds
Maughold
Trinity Term
1802
John Looney Snr. & Jnr. to Robert Christian
Document number 20

Maughold N. 20
John Looney Senr.
Margt. Looney
& John Looney Junr.

to

Robt. Christian

the Copy of this
Deed is …

CTD / TT
[S] 1802

Know all men by these Presents that I John Looney by &
with the consent of my wife Margaret Looney my wife & John
looney my son & heir Divin Good causes and reasons us
herunto moving And Chiefly and more especially for and
in Consideration of the Just & full sum of Twenty pounds
Currency of this Isle to us in hand already paid at by
and from the hands of Robert Christian of Lewaige &
Parish of KK Maughold the the Receipt thereof [and] do hereby
acknowledge and also engage himself to pay unto
William Kerruish of Ballallin the Consediration of a
Bill of Mortgage already on the after mentoined Premis
with all arrears of Interest costs and changes attending
the same by Sd. deed will more at large appear
Having therefore Given Granted Bargained
and Sold and by these Presents do give grant bargain
and for ever absolutely sell All our right & Title
of and unto Certain Parcel of land part of the Quarterland
of Dreemskarry in the parish of KK Maughold Known
& distinguished by the name of Giarry Begg Bwoail
Treen & [Gaaieyn] giarry moore adjoin’g the lands of sd.
Robert Christian on the west and north west & north & north
East & to the lands of Robert Logan on the East & south
East & to the lands of Thomas Morisson on the south &
South west with all the Houses errected on sd. premises
Garden & Haggyard Together with all ways waters
water Courses Easements Liberties & appurtenances
to the same belonging or in any win appurtaining
& of such annual Chief or Lords Rent as the Setting Quest
of KK Maughold shall proportion thereon ___
from us the sd. John Looney and Margaret my wife
and John Looney my son as aforesd. and our Heirs
Executrs. Administrs. and assigns – To Have and to hold
unto Robert Christian his Heirs Exrs. Adminrs. & assigns
for ever he in that Yeilding & paying Yearly &

every Year the chief ^ or ^ Lords rent that shall be Pro
=portioned thereon by the Setting of sd. parish
with all other Boons suits and services as annually
incumbent on the same We the sd. John Looney &
Margaret my wife & John Looney our son do hereby
engage our selves to have full power & authority
and good Title to execute the same and do uphold
and awarrant the Purchaser in the peaceable
Possession of the premises against the Pretended
right and Title of any any thing herein Contained
to the Contrary Notwithstanding - But still
it is to be understood that the full meaning & purport
of these Presents are that if in case I the sd. John
Looney my wife Margaret or my son John our our
heirs Exrs. Adminstrs. or assigns do pay the or cause to
be paid unto him the sd. Robt. Christian or his heirs
Exrs. Admintrs. or assigns the afore sum or Considiration
of Twenty Pounds and all other sum or sums of money
and shall be paid by him in Redeeming the Premises
at the end of four years ensuing the date hereof
aforesd. ^^ then the aforesd. Bill of Sale is to be null & void
and to no Effect in Law ____________
But in case of failure or non payment of the same
with Lawfull Interest thereon with all other costs &
Charges attending the same shall not be [truely]
& Justly paid and Satisfied unto him the sd. Robert
Christian or his Heirs Exrs. Admon. and assigns from
us the sd. Jno. Looney & Margaret my wife and John Looney
my son as afforesd. or our heirs Exrs. Adminstrs. & assigns
at the end or Expiration of the aforesd. term of four Years
Then the aforesd. Bill of Sale to be in full force and
Virtue as if no Condition was made - And for the true
and faithfull performance of all and singular the aforesd.
Bill of sale & Conditions annexed all parties concerned
Do hereby Bind & oblige themselves & their Heirs Exrs.
Adminstrs. & assigns in and under the Penalty
Three Hundred Pounds Sterling to be Levyed according
To Law & C. As Witness our names this 2 .. of
November 1800 –
Signed and dilivered } John Looney
in presence of } Margaret Looney my x
John Quilliam } John Looney
Robert Logan

At Ramsey 12th June 1802.
John Quilliam and Robt. Logan subscribing
Witnesses to the before written Deed of Sale made
Oath on the Holy Evangelists that John Looney
Junr. and Margt. Looney his mother two of the
Executing parties to the same did in their
presence sign and duly Execute the same
And John Looney Senr. The other Executing
Party acknowledged the same to be his
proper Act and deed And to be fully
paid the Consideration money.
Before me
James [Wines]

At a Court of Common Law holden at Ramsey
the 6th day of July 1802
The before going Deed of Sale having been acknow
Ledged by John Looney Senr. one of the Executing parties to the same and the
same having been duly proved to have been granted by the other
and the [same having] been published in [this Court no objection offered thereto]
parties thereto before the High Bailiff of Ramsey ^ this Deed is therefore
at this instance of the ……. [ordered] to be Recorded.
John Law _
James [Wines]