thank you Donna. The great grandmother Ann Archibald is the one I needed & from the MI I got new info. I think she was a widow by 1861 census as she was then 80 living in Peel with dau & son in law so I don't know when husband William actually died. I've tried with Brian's ref no for 1861 census, 4428 27 63 but can't find an Ann A & Radcliffes in Peel.